Interview with Charles - North Korean Student at Coding Dojo
Charles escaped from North Korea and made the dangerous journey to safety without the help of a rescue. He resettled to the US in 2012, completing high school and soon after taking the opportunity to participate in a rigorous coding bootcamp through a partner of Liberty in North Korea, Coding Dojo. Charles is now attending community college and pursuing his own coding project. We had a chance to meet with Charles this summer to learn more about his life in North Korea and his new coding passion. Read the interview is below. Charles is also fundraising for rescues with us!
LiNK: Why did you choose to resettle to the US?
Charles: I was born between a North Korean mom and a Chinese dad, which put me in a difficult situation. I wasn’t accepted into South Korea because my Dad is Chinese, even though I had proof of having been captured once in China for being a North Korean refugee. So I applied for refugee status through the United Nations and resettled in the US.
LiNK: You attended Coding Dojo’s coding Bootcamp earlier this year - so cool! Between coding language, English, and borrowed words in Korean, which was the hardest language to learn?
Charles: Coding was hard. You have to know the terms while learning the specific coding language, so that was a challenge. I’m still teaching myself the parts of coding that I find difficult. As for borrowed words in Korean, I didn’t know those existed at all until I started to talk to more Koreans in the US. Borrowed words frequently came up, and I would have to ask people around me to explain the words that I couldn’t understand; part of the challenge was how the same word is pronounced differently in Korean and in English. Shortened words in Korean were tough to learn as well.
LiNK: What’s your favorite thing about programming?
Charles: My favorite thing about programming is I have finally discovered what I truly want to do with my life. I used to want to be a doctor one day, a cop the next day, and maybe a week later, I would want to join the army. Coding first became my hobby and thanks to Coding Dojo, it became something I want to make a career out of. It’s a lot of fun. But aside from that, I’ve also met good friends and instructors at Coding Dojo. I think it’s safe to say coding made me pull a 180 in life. I’m set on computers for now.
LiNK: Can you tell us about a project you’ve been working on?
Charles: Sure. I’ve been working on a project using MEAN stack to make an auction platform for ideas. Users can present ideas, sell ideas, buy ideas… You could say that it’s similar to Ebay in a way, but I think at this stage it’s important to emulate what other people have made to explore and learn about various successful models rather than trying to create something entirely new and different. With the current version, users can upload an idea onto the platform, but there’s been glitches in the idea being transferred to the the auction page. So that’s something I’ve been struggling with, but I think I’m going to finish it pretty soon.
LiNK: How do you get into computer programming as a career in North Korea?
Charles: I’m not sure because I don’t have any friends who went to university, although I do have a relative who was able to go. Most students who go to university come from wealthy families or are people who have been able to make a good amount of money from market activities, and they might find that kind of job. But in North Korea a lot of occupations are passed down from your parents, for example if you’re a politician then your children will also likely become politicians.
LiNK: After coding, what do you like to do in your free time?
Charles: I’m usually at the gym working out. If it’s breezy and not too hot outside, I go to the park and listen to music. You can find me sitting on a bench with my headphones on.
LiNK: What kinds of things do you think about when you’re at a park listening to your music?
Charles: Usually I think about memories from North Korea. When I’m busy my mind is preoccupied with work, but when I have more time on my hands I often think back on my life in North Korea -- both the good days and the hungry days.
LiNK: Can you share one of your favorite memories with us?
Charles: Sure. I had a lot of friends back in North Korea, and we were always outdoors in nature. I lived near Daedong River, so every Sunday, five to six friends of mine and I would have cookouts near the river. We would get rice, a pot, and some firewood to make porridge. Would I do that here? Probably not. I could try, but I think being with my friends was what made it memorable and special. Even when we were hungry, we were hungry together.
LiNK: That sounds really nice. Have you found any foods that you like to eat here?
Charles: Subway! I love sandwiches. My go-to Korean food is Kimchijiggae. I also like Vietnamese noodles — Pho.
LiNK: Cool. What are three things you want to accomplish by the end of this year?
Charles: First is completing my programming project, the Idea Auction project that I mentioned earlier. Second is getting accepted into the community college that I’m applying to. And third would be keeping in good health!
LiNK: Those are some solid goals. You drive Uber sometimes, right? When you’re talking with riders, do you share that you’re from North Korea?
Charles: Well, not a lot of people in the US are aware about North Korea. They say, “Where are you from?” So I would say, “I’m from North Korea,” and they go, “How is it there?” Haha. So I tell them that North Korea is the counterpart of South Korea. The funny thing is that they might not be familiar with North Korea, but they know what I’m talking about when I say the name Kim Jong Un. Then, they don’t believe me and say it’s impossible to escape. When I share my story, they’re very surprised. A lot of my customers stick around to listen to my story even after we’ve arrived at the destination. Even if it’s late at night, people don’t get out of my car until I finish my story.
Creating home: An Interview with our U.S. Resettlement Assistance Manager
While the majority of the North Koreans who come through our rescue network wish to resettle in South Korea, a small group choose to come to the United States. Drawn by family, friends, and new opportunities, they resettle all across the country. Because resettlement to the U.S. comes with its own set of unique challenges—mainly the language barrier—we have programs specially designed to help North Koreans find their footing in their first few years. Our U.S. resettlement manager Kris explains the details of the resettlement process and her work with LiNK in more detail.
Describe a normal day at your job.
What’s cool about my job is that no work day is the same. From helping a North Korean register for school to purchasing bikes for a family (both are things I have done very recently), every day is different. I travel quite often to visit refugees and to meet with partner organizations. I also spend a lot of time researching government and community benefits, changes in immigration laws, and educational resources. I will say that the two services I provide almost every day are translation and interpretation.
What do you enjoy most about your job?
The North Korean friends we work with are pretty awesome. It really is my privilege to be able to work with such an amazing group of people. I get to help them but I also learn so much. My job never gets boring. They challenge me to do more and be better. My colleagues at LiNK are pretty cool, too. =)
What is the most difficult part about your job? What was most surprising about the work you do?
The number of North Korean refugees who have resettled in the US is pretty small so people tend to put them in one group and form generalized opinions about them. But what I learned over the years and what some people might find surprising is that each person is so unique in their backgrounds, family dynamics, worldviews, reasons for defection, life goals and dreams. It’s challenging to be able to assess and meet their differing needs and help them reach not only self-sufficiency but also the eventual self-actualization and fulfillment. But I’m proud of the individualized and flexible case management that we have been able to offer to the people we serve. As we expand our work, I hope we will continue to have capacity to offer individualized care.
What are some of the challenges that our North Korean friends face as they resettle here in the US?
There are so many. Most common ones would be language and cultural barriers. Access to transportation is a huge challenge because although many states offer driver’s license exams in Korean, there are some that don’t, so the refugees have to learn English first in order to take the driver’s license exam. Some of the more recent and regionally-specific challenges are lack of affordable housing and immediate employment opportunities.
What are some of the challenges in running a North Korean refugee post-resettlement program here in the United States?
The fact that the people we work with are scattered all over the country makes it difficult to do anything in-person. Geography has always been the biggest challenge for me because I’d love for us to be more accessible to the refugees and do more in-person programs with them. Most refugee agencies serve local communities because it’s difficult to be a direct service provider from afar. We have to be creative to stay connected to the people we serve. One good thing that the pandemic did was normalizing virtual communication, and we were able to successfully execute an entrepreneurship program and a mentorship program virtually during the pandemic.
What was one of your most memorable events in this role?
Not long after one of our clients died in a car accident, I flew out to see her minor children. I knew that no words would bring comfort to them at that point. I took them out to see a movie and we went to get our nails done. Of course, we got some boba afterwards. Then per their request, we went out to a hot pot restaurant for dinner, and there we ran into some people from their church. The people assured me that the children will be taken care of and the community will be there for them. I went out there to bring some comfort for the children, but instead, I was the one that was comforted more than anyone. It’s just one of those days that I’ll always remember.
What is something you wish the world knew about North Korea or the North Korean people?
Maybe I can just say something about the North Korean refugees, rather than the entire country of North Korea or the North Korean people inside the country. North Korean refugees, in their defection and resettlement process, have gone through so many unimaginable obstacles and have overcome them with such incredible resilience and determination. I believe that they have this amazing potential to overcome any barriers and to succeed in their new life. I hope the whole world understands this and welcomes the refugees with open arms.
