Interview with Charles - North Korean Student at Coding Dojo
Charles escaped from North Korea and made the dangerous journey to safety without the help of a rescue. He resettled to the US in 2012, completing high school and soon after taking the opportunity to participate in a rigorous coding bootcamp through a partner of Liberty in North Korea, Coding Dojo. Charles is now attending community college and pursuing his own coding project. We had a chance to meet with Charles this summer to learn more about his life in North Korea and his new coding passion. Read the interview is below. Charles is also fundraising for rescues with us!
LiNK: Why did you choose to resettle to the US?
Charles: I was born between a North Korean mom and a Chinese dad, which put me in a difficult situation. I wasn’t accepted into South Korea because my Dad is Chinese, even though I had proof of having been captured once in China for being a North Korean refugee. So I applied for refugee status through the United Nations and resettled in the US.
LiNK: You attended Coding Dojo’s coding Bootcamp earlier this year - so cool! Between coding language, English, and borrowed words in Korean, which was the hardest language to learn?
Charles: Coding was hard. You have to know the terms while learning the specific coding language, so that was a challenge. I’m still teaching myself the parts of coding that I find difficult. As for borrowed words in Korean, I didn’t know those existed at all until I started to talk to more Koreans in the US. Borrowed words frequently came up, and I would have to ask people around me to explain the words that I couldn’t understand; part of the challenge was how the same word is pronounced differently in Korean and in English. Shortened words in Korean were tough to learn as well.
LiNK: What’s your favorite thing about programming?
Charles: My favorite thing about programming is I have finally discovered what I truly want to do with my life. I used to want to be a doctor one day, a cop the next day, and maybe a week later, I would want to join the army. Coding first became my hobby and thanks to Coding Dojo, it became something I want to make a career out of. It’s a lot of fun. But aside from that, I’ve also met good friends and instructors at Coding Dojo. I think it’s safe to say coding made me pull a 180 in life. I’m set on computers for now.
LiNK: Can you tell us about a project you’ve been working on?
Charles: Sure. I’ve been working on a project using MEAN stack to make an auction platform for ideas. Users can present ideas, sell ideas, buy ideas… You could say that it’s similar to Ebay in a way, but I think at this stage it’s important to emulate what other people have made to explore and learn about various successful models rather than trying to create something entirely new and different. With the current version, users can upload an idea onto the platform, but there’s been glitches in the idea being transferred to the the auction page. So that’s something I’ve been struggling with, but I think I’m going to finish it pretty soon.
LiNK: How do you get into computer programming as a career in North Korea?
Charles: I’m not sure because I don’t have any friends who went to university, although I do have a relative who was able to go. Most students who go to university come from wealthy families or are people who have been able to make a good amount of money from market activities, and they might find that kind of job. But in North Korea a lot of occupations are passed down from your parents, for example if you’re a politician then your children will also likely become politicians.
LiNK: After coding, what do you like to do in your free time?
Charles: I’m usually at the gym working out. If it’s breezy and not too hot outside, I go to the park and listen to music. You can find me sitting on a bench with my headphones on.
LiNK: What kinds of things do you think about when you’re at a park listening to your music?
Charles: Usually I think about memories from North Korea. When I’m busy my mind is preoccupied with work, but when I have more time on my hands I often think back on my life in North Korea -- both the good days and the hungry days.
LiNK: Can you share one of your favorite memories with us?
Charles: Sure. I had a lot of friends back in North Korea, and we were always outdoors in nature. I lived near Daedong River, so every Sunday, five to six friends of mine and I would have cookouts near the river. We would get rice, a pot, and some firewood to make porridge. Would I do that here? Probably not. I could try, but I think being with my friends was what made it memorable and special. Even when we were hungry, we were hungry together.
LiNK: That sounds really nice. Have you found any foods that you like to eat here?
Charles: Subway! I love sandwiches. My go-to Korean food is Kimchijiggae. I also like Vietnamese noodles — Pho.
LiNK: Cool. What are three things you want to accomplish by the end of this year?
Charles: First is completing my programming project, the Idea Auction project that I mentioned earlier. Second is getting accepted into the community college that I’m applying to. And third would be keeping in good health!
LiNK: Those are some solid goals. You drive Uber sometimes, right? When you’re talking with riders, do you share that you’re from North Korea?
Charles: Well, not a lot of people in the US are aware about North Korea. They say, “Where are you from?” So I would say, “I’m from North Korea,” and they go, “How is it there?” Haha. So I tell them that North Korea is the counterpart of South Korea. The funny thing is that they might not be familiar with North Korea, but they know what I’m talking about when I say the name Kim Jong Un. Then, they don’t believe me and say it’s impossible to escape. When I share my story, they’re very surprised. A lot of my customers stick around to listen to my story even after we’ve arrived at the destination. Even if it’s late at night, people don’t get out of my car until I finish my story.
North Korean Soldiers in Russia-Ukraine War
Insights from LiNK’s Chief Strategy Officer, Sokeel Park
Since the end of last year, there have been multiple credible reports of a significant number of North Korean troops being killed and wounded while fighting against Ukrainian forces in Kursk. More recently, there have been media interviews with two North Korean POWs being held in Ukraine and reports of additional reinforcements being sent to Russia. Kursk is a Russian region bordering Ukraine where Ukrainian forces have held territory since last summer, aiming to change the dynamics of the war and hold a bargaining chip for peace negotiations.
These North Korean soldiers were sent to Russia by Kim Jong Un last autumn as part of his support for Putin’s war. In return, Russia is thought to be providing North Korea with oil, military technology, food and cash.
Kim Jong Un’s Goals and How The World Can Respond
Since the first reports of this unprecedented deployment of over 10,000 North Korean troops to a foreign war we have been in discussions with the Ukrainian Embassy in Seoul, the US government, and Ukrainian civil society representatives regarding policy recommendations and potential responses.
Whilst it is clear that Kim Jong Un does not care about the tragic loss of life of young North Korean men in the trenches of Kursk, he does care about maintaining control over North Korean people’s information environment.
At every opportunity we will continue to encourage relevant governments to increase information access initiatives with strategic messaging targeting North Korean troops in Russia, overseas North Koreans, and audiences inside North Korea. The objectives are to decrease North Korean soldiers’ willingness to fight for Putin, encourage surrender and defection, prevent avoidable loss of life, and increase political costs for Kim Jong Un to continue his military support for Putin.
Treatment of North Korean POWs
We also call on the media to protect the rights, dignity and identity security of any captured North Korean POWs who may be made available for interviews. The North Korean military does not educate its soldiers on its rights as POWs, and information released through such interviews may endanger the soldiers themselves and family members back in North Korea. The Geneva Convention also protects POWs against being subject to public curiosity, meaning interviews must be truly voluntary with fully informed consent, and not exploit the POWs status or conditions. We have discussed these issues directly with relevant journalists, but it is regrettable that in the race to be first some media’s ethical standards have dropped.
The Future of North Korea
The North Korean government’s threats to international security are real, and they dominate the news headlines regarding the country. But we should remember that the North Korean soldiers dying on the battlefield come from the same communities as North Koreans that have come to freedom with us, are now enthusiastically learning English in Seoul, advocating for North Korean human rights at the UN, and working with us to challenge the North Korean government’s control over information.
It will only be when North Korea opens up and all North Korean people gain their basic freedoms that North Korea can have leadership that values North Korean lives. When that happens all of these issues, including the North Korean government’s threats to international security, can be resolved. Thank you for your ongoing support for this vision.
You can learn about human rights violations in the North Korean military in this report by our colleagues at NKDB. Download the full report at the bottom of the page.
