NK Perspectives: 5 North Koreans weigh in on the second Kim-Trump Summit
We asked 5 North Koreans what they thought of the 2nd Kim-Trump summit, their perception of the U.S while growing up, and what they wish the world knew about North Korea.
What went through your mind when you saw Kim Jong Un and President Trump shaking hands last year?
Jessie Kim
27 years old, from Hyesan, escaped in 2011
Jessie: When I saw Trump and Kim Jong Un shaking hands during the first North Korea-U.S. summit, two things came into my mind.
1. With the help of the United States, maybe South and North Korea will actually reunify. And especially when I saw them shaking hands, I couldn’t stop crying thinking how one day I might meet my family again.
2. At the same time, I was worried that the world might forget about the North Korean people who are suffering behind Kim Jong Un’s political showmanship.
Jung Jin
35 years old, from Yanggang Province, escaped in 2014
Jung Jin: In North Korea, everyone is taught to be hostile towards America from an early age. We’re taught that the American imperialists are our mortal enemy with whom we cannot live together under the same sky.
So when I saw Kim Jong Un smiling and shaking hands with the president of the U.S., I really wondered what was going on in his head. For Trump, it’s about nuclear weapons, and for Kim Jong Un, it’s about maintaining his regime. I was worried about who on earth would help the tens of millions of North Korean people who are suffering because of that regime.
Geumhyok Kim
27 years old, from Pyongyang, escaped in 2012
Geumhyok: It didn’t leave me with any particular feeling. Watching the heads of the two countries, which have been enemies for so long, shaking hands and strolling down a garden path together can itself be an emotional and meaningful thing.
However, I feel that the Singapore Summit had far too many shortcomings to solve the nuclear problems of the Korean Peninsula when one considers the highly complex underlying issues and interests involved. In the final analysis, although it may have looked as if the North Korean issue might even be solved immediately after the summit, nothing has changed in reality and it has only served to highlight the difference in the basic positions of the two sides.
Joseph Park
37 years old, from North Hamkyung Province, escaped in 1999
Joseph: To be honest, I was expecting the Trump-Kim moment to be more emotional because the previous summit between president Moon and Kim Jong Un was such a powerful moment, but it didn’t live up to my expectation. Unlike the inter-Korean summit, the U.S-North Korea summit hasn’t produced any tangible results, which is disappointing.
Jinho Kim*
24 years old, from Chongjin, escaped in 2008
Jinho: I felt that many people would fall for the propaganda. Kim Jong Un shook hands with the president of the United States for the first time in history, so the thought that many people expected peace to come and might see Kim Jong Un as a normal leader worried me. The more Kim Jong Un develops his image as a normal leader, the quieter the voices calling for human rights for the North Korean people will become.
*Name changed for privacy reasons
When you were in North Korea, what was your perception of the United States?
Jessie: When I was growing up in North Korea, I really wanted to visit America during my lifetime. When I was young, my grandma used to tell me stories about American soldiers [that she met during the Korean War], and after my mother died I used a lot of American dollars while running my private business. The North Korean government teaches us that America is very bad, but in the jangmadang (markets) the U.S. dollar is valued very highly. These social contradictions made me doubt the state, and ultimately led to my escape.
Jung Jin: Since I received so much anti-American education when I was young, I thought that Americans were all scary looking vicious murderers. But my thinking started to change as I got older and I watched American movies that were smuggled across the border from China. I was able to feel at least a bit like Americans are just human and many of them are good people.
Geumhyok: When I was in North Korea, I received two kinds of education about the U.S. The first was the general anti-American education and the second was a more in-depth strategic analysis of the U.S. when I was enrolled at the Pyongyang Foreign Languages School and Kim Il Sung University as a student of English Literature. I personally felt the power of the U.S, and was afraid of it. I never once thought that North Korea could defeat the U.S. in a war as claimed by the North Korean government. In fact, I dreaded the opposite outcome.
Joseph: We were taught that the United States is our mortal enemy who made the Korean people suffer, and is an invader occupying South Korea. However, when I came to South Korea the people that influenced me the most were Americans. Despite the sanctions imposed on North Korea by the U.S. and the international community, the people doing humanitarian work in the North are Americans. I think the North Korean government demonizes the U.S. for political gain in much the same way American politicians demonize Islam or South Korean right-wing politicians and the Abe administration of Japan demonize North Korea for political gain.
Jinho: I was faithful to what I was taught so I believed the U.S. was our mortal enemy. When I played with my friends, the kids playing the role of ‘bad guys’ always pretended to be Americans. When the U.S. and North Korea made a gesture of peace, I thought that the U.S. was surrendering to North Korea. I only thought of the U.S. as an imperialist power that was oppressing our people.
What are your personal hopes for this summit?
Jessie: Honestly, I don’t have high hopes for the second North Korea-U.S. summit. After the first NK-U.S. summit that seemed would lead to huge change, and after three North-South summits, I think the world has just helped Kim Jong Un to get what he wants. Especially when we consider that the second NK-U.S. summit is being held in Hanoi, Vietnam, we can see more clearly what Kim Jong Un’s objective is. If we really want to achieve peace between North Korea and South Korea, then we need to throw away any hopes of North Korea giving up their nuclear weapons and direct our policy effort at making North Korea reform, open, and develop the economy for the people, not just for Kim Jong Un.
Jung Jin: I know it seems like a really futile hope, but I wish that the North Korean people are in Kim Jong Un’s mind even a little bit when he is doing this summit. I hope rather than only obsessing about how he can maintain his regime, he spares a second’s thought for the people."The one thing I want to tell the world about North Korea is that the people living there are ordinary people just like us."
Geumhyok: To be honest, I am skeptical about the upcoming meeting. A summit is no more than a show. I would say that the series of working-level talks leading up to the summit are more important. There have been many negotiations but denuclearization is becoming less likely by the day, and in fact it seems we might be heading for just a nuclear freeze. It’s hard to see a negotiation that deviates from one’s original goal and gradually finds a point of compromise as a victorious one. That’s why I don’t have high hopes for this summit.
Joseph: I hope North Korea and the U.S. end the armistice and declare an end to the war, sign a peace treaty, and establish diplomatic relations. And I sincerely hope that North Korea dismantles its nuclear weapons and the Korean peninsula turns into a land of peace so that there is no more pain for separated families.
Jinho: I hope the U.S. will take the initiative in the talks and force Kim Jong Un to give up his nuclear weapons and open up the country. I hope that there will be no declaration ending the Korean War or the signing of a peace agreement. Since North Korea still has the ambition of unifying the whole peninsula, if there is a declaration ending the war or peace treaty, the Korean Peninsula could fall into the hands of North Korea, just like what happened in Vietnam which is where Kim Jong Un chose as the venue for the talks.
If North Korea were to sign a peace treaty and improve relations with the United States, a country they have long propagandized as their eternal enemy, how would this influence North Korean society and culture?
Jessie: Personally, I think it’s difficult to expect that signing a peace treaty and ending hostilities will change the perceptions of ordinary citizens who are struggling to make a living, because a peace treaty signed by Kim Jong Un would be for the benefit of the regime, not for the people. A true peace treaty is one that facilitates economic reforms and actually improves the lives of the people.
Jung Jin: North Korean people live with not just their freedom, but even their human instincts repressed. If North Korea ends their hostile relationship with America, the symbol of capitalism, then socially and culturally the winds of capitalism will blow strongly in North Korea. I think there will be a lot of change in people’s fashion particularly. And if people’s fashion changes, then of course people’s consciousness changes too.
Geumhyok: A peace treaty between the U.S. and North Korea has many meanings. I, too, want to see the hostilities between the two countries end and an improvement of bilateral relations. However, to realize this there are many hurdles to be overcome. Realistically, it’s near impossible. First, the situation in South Korea doesn’t allow it. The two Koreas have starkly different systems and their respective constitutions both state that the other side should be reunified under their system. A peace treaty between the U.S. and North Korea will undermine the basis for the deployment of U.S. troops in South Korea and, in turn, destabilize the North-South power balance. This can catalyze new security concerns and affect the Northeast Asian order in an unpredictable way. Without any meaningful change to the authoritarian dictatorship of North Korea, the socio-cultural impact of a peace treaty will not be felt by the people. In fact, it can work towards bolstering North Korea’s dictatorship."...a peace treaty signed by Kim Jong Un would be for the benefit of the regime, not for the people. A true peace treaty is one that facilitates economic reforms and actually improves the lives of the people."
Joseph: People really dislike Japan, but no North Koreans dislike goods made in Japan. It’s the same with the U.S.: people hate the U.S. but there is no one that would say no to Hollywood movies or Apple products. Even Kim Jong Un uses an iMac and an iPad. After the North Korea-U.S. summit last year, the North Korean government has been promising its people a peaceful future with the U.S., ending the hostility between the two countries. I think a new future awaits the North Koreans. But I hope only good things will go into that pure and untouched land.
Jinho: To my knowledge, North Korea will advertise it as the U.S. surrendering to North Korea. Then North Koreans will once again gain hope for the regime and abandon their ideas about human rights. Just because a peace agreement is signed does not mean that Kim Jong Un will give freedom to his people. I think this will only change Kim Jong Un's political position and have no positive impact on the real human rights and lives of the North Korean people.
What do you wish people around the world who will be watching this summit knew about North Korea?
Jessie: As humans born on this earth we all have basic rights. But North Korean people live without even knowing the meaning of such a word. Media portrayals of Kim Jong Un, [his wife] Ri Sol Ju carrying an expensive handbag, and the parts of Pyongyang shown to the world are not the true North Korea. North Korean people are hidden behind the veils of skyscrapers and luxury handbags. The one thing I want to tell the world about North Korea is that the people living there are ordinary people just like us. I hope we don’t forget about the North Korean people who can’t even claim their right to life.\"The more Kim Jong Un develops his image as a normal leader through these summits, the more the international community will lose interest in the oppression and control he has on the people."
Jung Jin: It seems that people think Kim Jong Un represents North Korea, and I guess people around the world can think that. But I wish people knew the fact that behind Kim Jong Un, who is abnormally obese, even in his mid-30s, there are many North Korean children and adults who are skinny and have stunted growth because of food shortages. I can tell you for certain that North Koreans are generally shorter than South Koreans. We’re the same ethnicity and we have the same blood, so I can only conclude that this difference in our physiques must come from the differences in nutrition.
Geumhyok: The North Korea-U.S. summit is a show; a show of a grand scale. What’s important is the series of working-level negotiations happening below that. We need to closely watch what is being negotiated. These shows are dazzling, and when fireworks are too bright people cover their eyes and ears. But when the show finishes and darkness returns, everything will go back to the way it was before. The Singapore Summit was like that. We can’t let people have fantasies about Kim Jong Un’s dictatorship, because such fantasies only strengthen the power of the dictatorship.
Joseph: I hope people remember the 25 million North Koreans when they watch the summit between North Korea and the U.S. Those who’ve had to suffer the most due to the hostile relationship with North Korea are the North Korean people, not the regime. Peace will improve people’s lives. Peace will solve the issue of separated families. Peace will solve people’s hunger. Peace will solve the problems of people in pain. I think this is the most fundamental way of restoring people’s human rights."We can’t let people have fantasies about Kim Jong Un’s dictatorship, because such fantasies only strengthen the power of the dictatorship."
Jinho: Just because the leaders talk, it does not mean that the lives of North Koreans will change. Kim Jong Un is no different from his father Kim Jong Il and his grandfather Kim Il Sung in the sense that they are all dictators. He executed his relatives using anti-aircraft guns in order to maintain his regime, and cleared away homeless orphans and neglected them. North Koreans are still oppressed and are being sent to prison camps to be killed. The only reason the number of starving people is reducing is not because of Kim Jong Un, but because of the jangmadang (markets) developed by the North Korean people themselves. The more Kim Jong Un develops his image as a normal leader through these summits, the more the international community will lose interest in the oppression and control he has on the people. Citizens in the international community must be aware of this, and avoid only watching the political aspects shown through these summits.
Inside North Korea: People still suffer legacy of pandemic-era controls
The path to freedom is harder than ever. But the North Korean people haven’t given up. Join us this World Refugee Day in offering a way forward.
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During the pandemic, the regime took every opportunity to tighten its control under the guise of stopping the spread of COVID-19. Borders were sealed and reinforced, isolating the country and its people to an unprecedented extent. Trade was cut off, and the jandmadang—the markets that we’ve long highlighted as hotspots of change—were decimated.
Although the pandemic feels like history, the situation remains difficult as North Koreans recover from their most challenging period for a generation.
Information from inside the country has become increasingly difficult to obtain these last few years. But a landmark 2024 report from Human Rights Watch has offered some visibility into North Korea’s intensifying repression and the increased challenges North Korean people have faced.
Decimated Market Activity
“The prolonged border closures and restrictions on movement in-country have decimated the market activity that has become essential for the general population to access basic necessities.”
– Tomas Ojea-Quintana, then special rapporteur on the situation of human rights in the DPRK in March 2022 (via Human Rights Watch)
When North Korea’s socialist economy collapsed in the mid-1990s, triggering widespread famine, ordinary North Koreans negotiated their own survival through illicit trade and smuggling. Grassroots marketization was leading to opening and change in North Korea, centered around the markets—the jangmadang.
But when the regime closed its borders in 2020, almost all trade was cut off.
Human Rights Watch shares that according to official records, by 2021 North Korea was importing only 6% of what it had been importing in 2011—a staggering decrease. But these numbers still fail to fully capture the lives and needs of ordinary North Koreans, a sentiment echoed by the former North Korean traders that spoke with Human Rights Watch:
“There was a large but unmeasurable gap between what official trade numbers show and the quantities of products ordinary North Koreans need in their daily lives. This gap, previously narrowed by informal trade, became huge when informal trade and economic activity was almost completely choked off starting in 2020.”
Intensified Border Security
“We found a 20-fold increase in the number of new guard buildings or facilities since 2019, with a total of 6,820 facilities placed near new or improved fences… [and] almost 500 kilometers (over 300 miles) of new fences…”
– Human Rights Watch
Through satellite imagery analysis, Human Rights Watch reviewed 321 kilometers, or roughly one-quarter of North Korea’s northern border, to compare security measures from before and after the pandemic.
Prior to 2020, approximately 230 kilometers (71%) of the 321 kilometers analyzed were fenced. But in the years since, multiple layers of fencing have been newly constructed, along with new and upgraded guard posts. Based on 2023 satellite imagery, there is now a staggering 743 kilometers (over 460 miles) of fencing within the 321 kilometers analyzed.
Along with infrastructure, in August 2020, the North Korean government created 1-2 kilometer “buffer zones” along its border with China, and instructed guards to “unconditionally shoot” on sight any person or wild animal entering the zones without permission, as “the [COVID-19] pandemic is being spread through air and items.” There were reports of at least 14 people being shot and killed between September 2020 and July 2022.
Human Rights Watch spoke with Young Mi, a former herbal medicine trader in contact with a relative in North Korea, to hear how the extreme restrictions had affected life in border areas:
“It is more the emotional environment and fear more [than the actual physical barriers] … [My relative] is scared to leave because of… a general sense of terror much stronger than a bullet or a wire fence.”
Starvation and Food Insecurity
“North Korea is one of the poorest countries in the world and the government has persistently struggled to ensure food security, adequate childhood nutrition, and access to medicine.”– Human Rights Watch
Chronic oppression in North Korea has created one of the most impoverished countries in the world. A 2023 UN report estimated that 46% of the population face food insecurity. Those 12 million North Koreans aren’t just numbers, but people like Eunju.
Eunju escaped from North Korea in 1999, fleeing starvation during the “Arduous March,” a propagandized name for a period of widespread famine.
“When the Arduous March began, rations from workplaces were nearly cut off. At first, we managed by selling household belongings or trading them for food, but eventually, there was nothing left to exchange. People would sigh, saying, ‘We can’t even trade our empty house for a single block of tofu.’
When spring arrived, we ate every kind of wild plant we could find, even peeling bark off pine trees, boiling and pounding it for days to make it edible. Although I managed to survive, death was everywhere. Some consumed nothing but wild plants and died from poisoning. Some were shot by soldiers while trying to steal corn from farms. Some were publicly executed for slaughtering and eating a cow. Some were orphaned street children, beaten to death for trying to steal food from others.
People lost their lives in different ways, but in the end, they all died trying to survive. The root cause was the same—severe food shortages.”
In 2021, Kim Jong Un urged the people to “wage another more difficult ‘Arduous March.’” Yet the regime continued to restrict cross-border trade and prioritize weapons development, all while neglecting domestic food production.
In the report from Human Rights Watch, Jiro Ishimaru, the director at Asiapress, shared that “In 2021, there were reports of people with disabilities and older people dying of starvation... after over three years of extreme difficulties, in April and May, there was a spike in reports of whole families and ordinary people dying of starvation in urban areas near [North Korea’s] northern border.”
Crackdowns on Foreign Media
“Simply watching [foreign] media content can result in a sentence of forced labor of over 10 years in a forced labor prison camp… Public executions of offenders are permitted, evidently to increase a sense of fear and alarm among the population”
– Human Rights Watch
The near-absolute control of information and media is one of the key ways that the regime disempowers and represses North Korean people. During the pandemic, it imposed several new laws that increase the severity of punishments for being caught with foreign media, and go as far as to restrict how individuals can express themselves.
Human Right Watch outlines the main additions:
- Reactionary Ideology and Culture Rejection Law (December 2020) “bans people from smuggling, viewing, and distributing ‘reactionary’ and ‘anti-socialist ideology and culture’”
- Youth Education Guarantee Law (September 2021) “bans young people from copying foreign culture and reorients them to a ‘socialist lifestyle’”
- Pyongyang Cultural Language Protection Act (January 2023) “permits the authorities to punish people for using South Korean intonations or slang”
Offenders could be sentenced to 6+ years of hard labor, or “if the severity of the crime is deemed high,” the death penalty.
The timing of these new laws is no coincidence. As North Koreans face a reality that is increasingly distant from the propaganda they’ve been told to believe, foreign media has the potential to further erode the regime’s legitimacy and control.
Our North Korean friend, Yulseong, shared how foreign media impacted his perception of the the regime and his ultimate decision to leave in 2018:
“I was introduced to music and movies from other countries through my friends. For movies, I loved James Bond and other Hollywood films. While watching them, I realized that North Korea was truly a poor country, and it made me want to leave as soon as possible.
For songs, I listened to ‘Bingo’ by Turtles, ‘Pure Love’ by Koyote, and music by Jatanpung. Seeking out songs about life and love is a basic human desire. Even if people fear punishment, that desire cannot be suppressed. That’s why, even today, I believe many North Koreans continue to watch foreign content.”
Lack of Access to Healthcare
“The DPRK Socialist Constitution and the country’s Public Health Law provide for free medical care to all citizens. In reality, medical supplies and medication are unavailable to most North Koreans and only those who can afford to purchase them on the private market.”
– Human Rights Watch
North Korea’s defunct healthcare system is another example of how the regime’s constraints create unnecessary hardship for North Korean people. The majority of the country’s public health system collapsed along with North Korea’s socialist economy in the 1990s. In the aftermath, the regime only prioritized hospitals in areas like Pyongyang, leaving ordinary North Koreans to fend for themselves.
According to a 2017 UN report, an estimated 33% of the population (8.4 million people) had limited access to health services, including 50% of people in rural areas.
Human Rights Watch spoke with a former North Korean doctor and nurses who escaped after 2014, who shared that, “most local clinics were only capable of diagnosing basic diseases and setting broken bones, and had barely any working tools, supplies, medicine, or electricity… medical workers relied on market activity and what their patients gave them to eat to survive.”
For our North Korean friend Lily, the most frustrating part was that all this suffering was preventable.
“When my older sister, Hye-Joo, developed acute appendicitis, there was no emergency line to call, or cars or taxis to transport her to the hospital. We loaded her onto a cart that was meant to carry produce, moving at a terribly slow pace.
Desperate to ease my sister’s pain, we exhausted every resource we had. Any surgical or medical equipment a patient needs has to be provided by the family. Gauze, painkillers, blankets–even food and bribes–may be necessary for an operation. Even then, severe shortages made it impossible to fully prepare. The surgery was performed with minimal anesthesia and makeshift sterilization. Later, my sister told me she had felt the knife cutting into her skin, and heard the doctor’s orders during the surgery.
What should have been a simple and safe procedure was a traumatic, life-threatening experience.”
Impact on this Issue
In the face of enormous challenges, we cannot be discouraged, because this work is more important than ever.
There are still things we can and must do to strengthen forces of change. LiNK is one of the few groups still running rescue operations in the underground railroad. We’re cultivating and partnering with North Korean activists and storytellers who are leading efforts to raise global awareness for this issue. And we’re ambitiously expanding our Information Access Programs, devising new strategies and pathways to get information and technology inside North Korea to empower the people.
Join us in reaffirming our commitment to a free North Korea.
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Change has never been a linear process. But one thing we can always be certain of is the resilience and strength of the North Korean people.
