NK Perspectives: 5 North Koreans weigh in on the second Kim-Trump Summit
We asked 5 North Koreans what they thought of the 2nd Kim-Trump summit, their perception of the U.S while growing up, and what they wish the world knew about North Korea.
What went through your mind when you saw Kim Jong Un and President Trump shaking hands last year?
Jessie Kim
27 years old, from Hyesan, escaped in 2011
Jessie: When I saw Trump and Kim Jong Un shaking hands during the first North Korea-U.S. summit, two things came into my mind.
1. With the help of the United States, maybe South and North Korea will actually reunify. And especially when I saw them shaking hands, I couldn’t stop crying thinking how one day I might meet my family again.
2. At the same time, I was worried that the world might forget about the North Korean people who are suffering behind Kim Jong Un’s political showmanship.
Jung Jin
35 years old, from Yanggang Province, escaped in 2014
Jung Jin: In North Korea, everyone is taught to be hostile towards America from an early age. We’re taught that the American imperialists are our mortal enemy with whom we cannot live together under the same sky.
So when I saw Kim Jong Un smiling and shaking hands with the president of the U.S., I really wondered what was going on in his head. For Trump, it’s about nuclear weapons, and for Kim Jong Un, it’s about maintaining his regime. I was worried about who on earth would help the tens of millions of North Korean people who are suffering because of that regime.
Geumhyok Kim
27 years old, from Pyongyang, escaped in 2012
Geumhyok: It didn’t leave me with any particular feeling. Watching the heads of the two countries, which have been enemies for so long, shaking hands and strolling down a garden path together can itself be an emotional and meaningful thing.
However, I feel that the Singapore Summit had far too many shortcomings to solve the nuclear problems of the Korean Peninsula when one considers the highly complex underlying issues and interests involved. In the final analysis, although it may have looked as if the North Korean issue might even be solved immediately after the summit, nothing has changed in reality and it has only served to highlight the difference in the basic positions of the two sides.
Joseph Park
37 years old, from North Hamkyung Province, escaped in 1999
Joseph: To be honest, I was expecting the Trump-Kim moment to be more emotional because the previous summit between president Moon and Kim Jong Un was such a powerful moment, but it didn’t live up to my expectation. Unlike the inter-Korean summit, the U.S-North Korea summit hasn’t produced any tangible results, which is disappointing.
Jinho Kim*
24 years old, from Chongjin, escaped in 2008
Jinho: I felt that many people would fall for the propaganda. Kim Jong Un shook hands with the president of the United States for the first time in history, so the thought that many people expected peace to come and might see Kim Jong Un as a normal leader worried me. The more Kim Jong Un develops his image as a normal leader, the quieter the voices calling for human rights for the North Korean people will become.
*Name changed for privacy reasons
When you were in North Korea, what was your perception of the United States?
Jessie: When I was growing up in North Korea, I really wanted to visit America during my lifetime. When I was young, my grandma used to tell me stories about American soldiers [that she met during the Korean War], and after my mother died I used a lot of American dollars while running my private business. The North Korean government teaches us that America is very bad, but in the jangmadang (markets) the U.S. dollar is valued very highly. These social contradictions made me doubt the state, and ultimately led to my escape.
Jung Jin: Since I received so much anti-American education when I was young, I thought that Americans were all scary looking vicious murderers. But my thinking started to change as I got older and I watched American movies that were smuggled across the border from China. I was able to feel at least a bit like Americans are just human and many of them are good people.
Geumhyok: When I was in North Korea, I received two kinds of education about the U.S. The first was the general anti-American education and the second was a more in-depth strategic analysis of the U.S. when I was enrolled at the Pyongyang Foreign Languages School and Kim Il Sung University as a student of English Literature. I personally felt the power of the U.S, and was afraid of it. I never once thought that North Korea could defeat the U.S. in a war as claimed by the North Korean government. In fact, I dreaded the opposite outcome.
Joseph: We were taught that the United States is our mortal enemy who made the Korean people suffer, and is an invader occupying South Korea. However, when I came to South Korea the people that influenced me the most were Americans. Despite the sanctions imposed on North Korea by the U.S. and the international community, the people doing humanitarian work in the North are Americans. I think the North Korean government demonizes the U.S. for political gain in much the same way American politicians demonize Islam or South Korean right-wing politicians and the Abe administration of Japan demonize North Korea for political gain.
Jinho: I was faithful to what I was taught so I believed the U.S. was our mortal enemy. When I played with my friends, the kids playing the role of ‘bad guys’ always pretended to be Americans. When the U.S. and North Korea made a gesture of peace, I thought that the U.S. was surrendering to North Korea. I only thought of the U.S. as an imperialist power that was oppressing our people.
What are your personal hopes for this summit?
Jessie: Honestly, I don’t have high hopes for the second North Korea-U.S. summit. After the first NK-U.S. summit that seemed would lead to huge change, and after three North-South summits, I think the world has just helped Kim Jong Un to get what he wants. Especially when we consider that the second NK-U.S. summit is being held in Hanoi, Vietnam, we can see more clearly what Kim Jong Un’s objective is. If we really want to achieve peace between North Korea and South Korea, then we need to throw away any hopes of North Korea giving up their nuclear weapons and direct our policy effort at making North Korea reform, open, and develop the economy for the people, not just for Kim Jong Un.
Jung Jin: I know it seems like a really futile hope, but I wish that the North Korean people are in Kim Jong Un’s mind even a little bit when he is doing this summit. I hope rather than only obsessing about how he can maintain his regime, he spares a second’s thought for the people."The one thing I want to tell the world about North Korea is that the people living there are ordinary people just like us."
Geumhyok: To be honest, I am skeptical about the upcoming meeting. A summit is no more than a show. I would say that the series of working-level talks leading up to the summit are more important. There have been many negotiations but denuclearization is becoming less likely by the day, and in fact it seems we might be heading for just a nuclear freeze. It’s hard to see a negotiation that deviates from one’s original goal and gradually finds a point of compromise as a victorious one. That’s why I don’t have high hopes for this summit.
Joseph: I hope North Korea and the U.S. end the armistice and declare an end to the war, sign a peace treaty, and establish diplomatic relations. And I sincerely hope that North Korea dismantles its nuclear weapons and the Korean peninsula turns into a land of peace so that there is no more pain for separated families.
Jinho: I hope the U.S. will take the initiative in the talks and force Kim Jong Un to give up his nuclear weapons and open up the country. I hope that there will be no declaration ending the Korean War or the signing of a peace agreement. Since North Korea still has the ambition of unifying the whole peninsula, if there is a declaration ending the war or peace treaty, the Korean Peninsula could fall into the hands of North Korea, just like what happened in Vietnam which is where Kim Jong Un chose as the venue for the talks.
If North Korea were to sign a peace treaty and improve relations with the United States, a country they have long propagandized as their eternal enemy, how would this influence North Korean society and culture?
Jessie: Personally, I think it’s difficult to expect that signing a peace treaty and ending hostilities will change the perceptions of ordinary citizens who are struggling to make a living, because a peace treaty signed by Kim Jong Un would be for the benefit of the regime, not for the people. A true peace treaty is one that facilitates economic reforms and actually improves the lives of the people.
Jung Jin: North Korean people live with not just their freedom, but even their human instincts repressed. If North Korea ends their hostile relationship with America, the symbol of capitalism, then socially and culturally the winds of capitalism will blow strongly in North Korea. I think there will be a lot of change in people’s fashion particularly. And if people’s fashion changes, then of course people’s consciousness changes too.
Geumhyok: A peace treaty between the U.S. and North Korea has many meanings. I, too, want to see the hostilities between the two countries end and an improvement of bilateral relations. However, to realize this there are many hurdles to be overcome. Realistically, it’s near impossible. First, the situation in South Korea doesn’t allow it. The two Koreas have starkly different systems and their respective constitutions both state that the other side should be reunified under their system. A peace treaty between the U.S. and North Korea will undermine the basis for the deployment of U.S. troops in South Korea and, in turn, destabilize the North-South power balance. This can catalyze new security concerns and affect the Northeast Asian order in an unpredictable way. Without any meaningful change to the authoritarian dictatorship of North Korea, the socio-cultural impact of a peace treaty will not be felt by the people. In fact, it can work towards bolstering North Korea’s dictatorship."...a peace treaty signed by Kim Jong Un would be for the benefit of the regime, not for the people. A true peace treaty is one that facilitates economic reforms and actually improves the lives of the people."
Joseph: People really dislike Japan, but no North Koreans dislike goods made in Japan. It’s the same with the U.S.: people hate the U.S. but there is no one that would say no to Hollywood movies or Apple products. Even Kim Jong Un uses an iMac and an iPad. After the North Korea-U.S. summit last year, the North Korean government has been promising its people a peaceful future with the U.S., ending the hostility between the two countries. I think a new future awaits the North Koreans. But I hope only good things will go into that pure and untouched land.
Jinho: To my knowledge, North Korea will advertise it as the U.S. surrendering to North Korea. Then North Koreans will once again gain hope for the regime and abandon their ideas about human rights. Just because a peace agreement is signed does not mean that Kim Jong Un will give freedom to his people. I think this will only change Kim Jong Un's political position and have no positive impact on the real human rights and lives of the North Korean people.
What do you wish people around the world who will be watching this summit knew about North Korea?
Jessie: As humans born on this earth we all have basic rights. But North Korean people live without even knowing the meaning of such a word. Media portrayals of Kim Jong Un, [his wife] Ri Sol Ju carrying an expensive handbag, and the parts of Pyongyang shown to the world are not the true North Korea. North Korean people are hidden behind the veils of skyscrapers and luxury handbags. The one thing I want to tell the world about North Korea is that the people living there are ordinary people just like us. I hope we don’t forget about the North Korean people who can’t even claim their right to life.\"The more Kim Jong Un develops his image as a normal leader through these summits, the more the international community will lose interest in the oppression and control he has on the people."
Jung Jin: It seems that people think Kim Jong Un represents North Korea, and I guess people around the world can think that. But I wish people knew the fact that behind Kim Jong Un, who is abnormally obese, even in his mid-30s, there are many North Korean children and adults who are skinny and have stunted growth because of food shortages. I can tell you for certain that North Koreans are generally shorter than South Koreans. We’re the same ethnicity and we have the same blood, so I can only conclude that this difference in our physiques must come from the differences in nutrition.
Geumhyok: The North Korea-U.S. summit is a show; a show of a grand scale. What’s important is the series of working-level negotiations happening below that. We need to closely watch what is being negotiated. These shows are dazzling, and when fireworks are too bright people cover their eyes and ears. But when the show finishes and darkness returns, everything will go back to the way it was before. The Singapore Summit was like that. We can’t let people have fantasies about Kim Jong Un’s dictatorship, because such fantasies only strengthen the power of the dictatorship.
Joseph: I hope people remember the 25 million North Koreans when they watch the summit between North Korea and the U.S. Those who’ve had to suffer the most due to the hostile relationship with North Korea are the North Korean people, not the regime. Peace will improve people’s lives. Peace will solve the issue of separated families. Peace will solve people’s hunger. Peace will solve the problems of people in pain. I think this is the most fundamental way of restoring people’s human rights."We can’t let people have fantasies about Kim Jong Un’s dictatorship, because such fantasies only strengthen the power of the dictatorship."
Jinho: Just because the leaders talk, it does not mean that the lives of North Koreans will change. Kim Jong Un is no different from his father Kim Jong Il and his grandfather Kim Il Sung in the sense that they are all dictators. He executed his relatives using anti-aircraft guns in order to maintain his regime, and cleared away homeless orphans and neglected them. North Koreans are still oppressed and are being sent to prison camps to be killed. The only reason the number of starving people is reducing is not because of Kim Jong Un, but because of the jangmadang (markets) developed by the North Korean people themselves. The more Kim Jong Un develops his image as a normal leader through these summits, the more the international community will lose interest in the oppression and control he has on the people. Citizens in the international community must be aware of this, and avoid only watching the political aspects shown through these summits.
An Exclusive Interview With LiNK’s Field Manager
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Over 1,200 North Korean refugees have reached freedom through our secret rescue routes. Michael Kim* is LiNK’s Field Manager and has overseen dozens of rescue missions, helping hundreds of these refugees safely reach freedom. Here is an exclusive interview with Michael, only for Liberty Donors like you! *Name changed for security reasons
Why did you want to work on the North Korean issue?
Michael: I went to university in South Korea and there I met North Koreans for the first time. I became really good friends with them without knowing they were from North Korea. As we grew closer, I grew more aware and informed. I also studied Political Science and International Relations, so I wanted to be more involved in the North Korean issue..
After college I went to serve in the South Korean military. The mandatory military service is a constant reminder of the “other” Korea – a Korea where people have drastically different living standards. Basically everything you do in the military is preparing for a potential war with North Korea. They were seen as “the enemy.” But I had friends who were from North Korea. I realized I should do something to change the situation on the Korean peninsula.
What made you want to work in the field?
Michael: I planned to go to graduate school but then a position in the field opened. I realized it was a once-in-a-lifetime opportunity and a really meaningful role. I ultimately decided to apply because I trusted LiNK and the work. It was a special opportunity because I would get to meet North Korean refugees during the most vulnerable state of their journeys and represent LiNK and the supporters who care about them.
What is the hardest part of your job?
Michael: It’s hands down the isolation. For security reasons, we can’t be open about our work. In Southeast Asia, we meet people but can’t reveal why we’re there or what we do. We have to come up with cover stories and when people ask too many questions, we shut them down. “Ah it’s just work. It’s boring. You don’t want to know.” It makes it hard to build meaningful connections outside of work.
Sometimes it takes a toll. Because there are times you do want to share your life with people. But this is why the field team is so close. Everyone shares everything so it’s like a family.
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What is your favorite part of the job?
Michael: Meeting our North Korean friends. When we meet, we tell them, “We’re honored to meet you.” And we mean it. We’re thankful and thrilled they made it this far and had the courage to seek freedom.
When you meet North Korean refugees in the field, what do they need the most?
Michael: When we meet them in person for the first time, they’re physically and mentally exhausted because of the long and dangerous journey they just went through. The fact that they made it to Southeast Asia is such a feat.
We focus on three things.
First, we want to support them physically and mentally. We make sure they get rest and create a safe space for them to recuperate.Even just meeting us gives the North Korean refugees a sense of relief. Throughout their journeys, they get directions over the phone or through people to go to pick up spots. So when they reach the final destination and hear the South Korean accent for the first time, it’s like a sign of freedom. They’ve only heard the accent in South Korean movies and dramas.Many of them have not been able to speak their native language freely since they left North Korea so they can finally relax and speak freely. As they share their journeys with us, we build personal relationships with them and it gives them so much encouragement and support.
Second, we do a quality control check. We ask them if anyone on their journey demanded money from them or treated them without dignity or respect. Because of our donor’s generous support refugees do not have to pay to be rescued by LiNK and we want to ensure refugees were not asked to pay by anyone on their route.
Lastly, we give them information. We let them know what to expect during the resettlement process and answer their questions. In some cases, refugees don’t know where they’re going because they’re trying to reunite with family members. We try to fill in the blanks and help them gain a fuller picture of what’s next.
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What are some questions you get from North Korean refugees?
Michael: If there’s a refugee who just left North Korea, they might ask really random questions. Everything is so new to them. They ask about the traffic lights or the names of trees in Southeast Asia. Many of them want to learn how to speak in a South Korean accent.
They also ask really pragmatic questions like, “What should I do in South Korea to make money so that I can bring my children out of North Korea?” This is a really common question.
One question someone asked was, “Can I travel abroad? And how long can I do that before the government wants me back in the country?” We explain to them that as long as they have a visa to the country they’re going, the South Korean government doesn’t care how long they’re gone!
What are surprising things you hear from North Korean refugees about North Korea?
Michael: The living conditions in North Korea are so bad. It shouldn’t surprise us anymore but every time you hear about it, it’s not easy. For example, they tell us that they were working for the government but were basically forced into slave labor. They’re doing this hard labor but they’re not getting paid by the government. In order to survive, they have to do something on the side.
Another grim reality is military life. North Korean men have to serve 10 years in the military and it’s not like life is easy there. People have said that they defected because they think about their little boys' futures. They know that once their son turns 18, he has to go to the military. By the time he returns, he’ll be 30. And they will miss out on all their time together.
What do most North Korean refugees want to do once they reach freedom?
Michael: It depends. Parents just want a better future for their children. Most people really want to learn. They’re hungry for knowledge. They want to learn how things are outside of North Korea and in the world. When we ask them what they want to do, most will tell you that “I don't know enough to know what I want. I just want to go there and see what options I have.”
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What field experience has stayed with you?
Michael: Refugees don’t fully grasp the idea of having donors supporting the North Korean people unconditionally. They end up asking, “What do they really get out of this? Why are they doing this? Is this the government?” It’s really hard to understand that individuals on the other side of the world care enough to support them.
But occasionally, we have people who fully understand and they feel so moved and inspired that they in turn want to participate in this movement. And that is really powerful. Seeing them go from a position of getting help to wanting to do something is always powerful to witness. It’s one thing to be grateful, but it’s another to say, “Now it’s my turn. Once I get to South Korea, this is what I’m going to do. I’m going to find ways to contribute.” They tell us that our work has opened their minds and they want to help.
Is there anything you want to say to our donors?
Michael: We can solely focus on what is best for the North Korean refugees only because we have so many generous people who support what we’re doing in the field. We do our best to be good stewards, but the fact that we can just focus on our work and what we can do better instead of worrying about funding is liberating. Because we’re in the field, we don’t really get to meet donors, but everything that we do - it reminds us that it’s only possible because of our donors and their support. We feel the support and we are so grateful!
Thanks to your monthly gift, Michael and his team are able to help rescue North Korean refugees at a moment’s notice. We’re so thankful for your continued support! Thank you for standing alongside the North Korean people!
